Non Boat Specific Proof of VAT

K

Kemal Arslanoglu

Member
Hello dear all, I am a EU citizen and purchased a second hand Moody S38 in Greece last year from a dealer but they aren't sure about the proof of paid VAT of this vessel by the very first owner. I sailed the vessel to a non EU country but if I want to sail to the EU waters then this will be a serious problem. I wonder if there is any way to know if the VAT has been paid or not from the HIN of the boat?
All answers are appreciated.
Cheers
Kemal
 
Hi Kemal,

Your problem is one faced by many owners of previously used boats. Unfortunately, there is no way of checking VAT payment from the HIN. The usual way of checking is through the old paperwork (bills of sale) to see if you can trace the original owner.

Where was the boat registered when you purchased it? If registered in an EU country, they may well have required proof of VAT before registering.
If it was/is UK registered, no proof of VAT was needed to register.

Regards,
Graham.
 
Hi Kemal,

Do you know who the boat was originally purchased from? Most Moodys were sold by their local agent in the area they were sold in, only if bought near the Solent were they sold by A H Moody & Sons. If you know who sold her to her first owner there is a chance that vendor still has a copy of the original VAT invoice, I was lucky and got a certified copy of one from Kip Marina in Scotland where Wild Thyme was fist sold.. Note that a copy, however well certified / verified is not adequate proof for UK revenue authority, they require the original VAT receipt.

Note that companies are only required to keep these data for 7 years under UK law, so they may legitimately have destroyed any copy invoices relating to the period 1995 - 1998, when S38s were built.

Peter.
 
Graham Frankland said:
Hi Kemal,

Your problem is one faced by many owners of previously used boats. Unfortunately, there is no way of checking VAT payment from the HIN. The usual way of checking is through the old paperwork (bills of sale) to see if you can trace the original owner.

Where was the boat registered when you purchased it? If registered in an EU country, they may well have required proof of VAT before registering.
If it was/is UK registered, no proof of VAT was needed to register.

Regards,
Graham.
Click to expand...
Hello Graham, thank you for the reply. Unfortunately I have no information about the previous owners. I bought her from a non prefessional broker in Greece and he said he doesnt know the previous owners.
Regards Thank you
 
Peter Wright said:
Hi Kemal,

Do you know who the boat was originally purchased from? Most Moodys were sold by their local agent in the area they were sold in, only if bought near the Solent were they sold by A H Moody & Sons. If you know who sold her to her first owner there is a chance that vendor still has a copy of the original VAT invoice, I was lucky and got a certified copy of one from Kip Marina in Scotland where Wild Thyme was fist sold.. Note that a copy, however well certified / verified is not adequate proof for UK revenue authority, they require the original VAT receipt.

Note that companies are only required to keep these data for 7 years under UK law, so they may legitimately have destroyed any copy invoices relating to the period 1995 - 1998, when S38s were built.

Peter.
Click to expand...
Hello Peter, as have purchased her from a non professional broker in Greece, the guy said he doesnt know the previous owner or maybe he doesnt want to share this information with me. So I think it is hopeless. But on the other hand if I want to pay the EU VAT. I wonder on what basis is the VAT calculated, I mean, on the amount of the bıll of sale or the insurance value? Cheers
 
Kemal Arslanoglu said:
Hello Graham, thank you for the reply. Unfortunately I have no information about the previous owners. I bought her from a non prefessional broker in Greece and he said he doesnt know the previous owners.
Regards Thank you
Click to expand...

Hi Kemal,

It seems very strange the broker doesn't know the name of the owner he was acting for or, the name of the person he bought the boat from.

What country was the boat registered with when you purchased it? You may be able to trace the previous owners through the registry.

What is or was the name of the boat? MOA may have details of previous ownership.

Regards,
Graham.
 
Graham Frankland said:
Hi Kemal,

It seems very strange the broker doesn't know the name of the owner he was acting for or, the name of the person he bought the boat from.

What country was the boat registered with when you purchased it? You may be able to trace the previous owners through the registry.

What is or was the name of the boat? MOA may have details of previous ownership.

Regards,
Click to expand...
 
Yes indeed, what he said to me was, legally he owned the boat and chartered it. And I bought the boat from him as the owner, And he said he last the contact of the very first owner or he did not want to share the information with me for some reason. So I dont want to be presistent anymore.
On the other hand, if I want to pay the EU VAT, on what basis is it calculated? On the amount of signed bill of sale or the actual value of the insurance? How can I get this information?
Kind regards
 
Kemal Arslanoglu said:
Yes indeed, what he said to me was, legally he owned the boat and chartered it. And I bought the boat from him as the owner, And he said he last the contact of the very first owner or he did not want to share the information with me for some reason. So I dont want to be presistent anymore.
On the other hand, if I want to pay the EU VAT, on what basis is it calculated? On the amount of signed bill of sale or the actual value of the insurance? How can I get this information?
Kind regards
Click to expand...

I understand that VAT is based on the actual value of the boat at time of purchase, not what it may be insured for. If the guy you purchased it from was operating it as a charter business, is he VAT registered? If so and the boat was owned by his business, he should have charged VAT on the sale.

Just for interest, my boat is UK flagged but has been EU based for the last 18 years and I've never had to prove VAT paid.
 
Graham Frankland said:
I understand that VAT is based on the actual value of the boat at time of purchase, not what it may be insured for. If the guy you purchased it from was operating it as a charter business, is he VAT registered? If so and the boat was owned by his business, he should have charged VAT on the sale.

Just for interest, my boat is UK flagged but has been EU based for the last 18 years and I've never had to prove VAT paid.
Click to expand...
Graham Frankland said:
I understand that VAT is based on the actual value of the boat at time of purchase, not what it may be insured for. If the guy you purchased it from was operating it as a charter business, is he VAT registered? If so and the boat was owned by his business, he should have charged VAT on the sale.

Just for interest, my boat is UK flagged but has been EU based for the last 18 years and I've never had to prove VAT paid.
Click to expand...
What I know is, if the boats are comercially chartered in Greece. then they are exempted from VAT no matter what if previously VAT was paid or not.
If your boats VAT is paid when purchased before Brexit, then it is valid in the EU waters. The boats purchased after Brexit can stay in the EU waters maximum 18 months with a transit log. Cheers
 
Kemal Arslanoglu said:
What I know is, if the boats are comercially chartered in Greece. then they are exempted from VAT no matter what if previously VAT was paid or not.
If your boats VAT is paid when purchased before Brexit, then it is valid in the EU waters. The boats purchased after Brexit can stay in the EU waters maximum 18 months with a transit log. Cheers
Click to expand...
thank you for the comments.
 
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