Moody 419 Pre survey advice pls

[Chan Sing]

Hi everyone.
ive fallen for a beautiful 419. She’s gorgeous!!
The broker originally advised that rigging might need changing and keel boats replacing.
Now I’ve just received a pic of the state of the keel. Looks worse than I thought but is it just my untrained eye?

Is this a fixab Lu e keel it too late to rescue?


she’s been on the hard 18 and and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Chan Sing]

Sorry. Bad spelling. Keel BOLTS!!

 

[Peter Wright]

Hi Chan,

From the photo, there's nothing wrong with the keel that you won't fix by having it sandblasted then repaint with a rusrpt tolerant epoxy primer. The cast iron is slightly porous, so salt will have got into it. You can get rid of most of it by pressure washing with fresh water after the blasting then a further quick blast to clean off the slight rusting (gingering) caused by the washing. This further blast will also warm the iron up helping to dry it, as soon as it's dry, get the first coat of primer on.

Your photos don't show the condition of the keel to hull joint, it's never easy to determine with the top flange in a recess such as the 419 and the eatlier 41 have. To have the keel dropped to remake this joint is not cheap as it involves using equilment to lift the hull and the keel, each of which weigh tonnes. However, if you do remake the joint, the additional cost of replacing the keel bolts (actually they're studs and nuts) is relatively small. If the joint is in good shape, you can replace the studs, nuts and backing plates one at a time without dropping the keel.

Lastly, you can use the search facility on this site to find plenty of posts on keel bolts and rusty keels.

Peter.

 

[Chan Sing]

Thanks Peter

nice of you to respond.

I know the condition of the keel is no problem but the space/join between the keel and the hull was what was worrying me.

 

[Ville Steudle]

Hi Chan,

difficult to assess from the photos and I do not have 1st-hand knowledge about how the keel was/is attached in this model.

But I would assume the top flange of the keel should be relatively level with the bottom of the boat. Is that the case?

The photo looks like some serious maintenance preparations have been done, do you have more background on this? Did the current owner plan to drop the keel or repaint it? What exactly has been done - just paint stripping or also putty removal?

Horizontal gaps could be related to some putty or sealant that has been removed in the course of the preparation work.

How does the inside (bilge) look like? Any cracks or traces of repairs?

Where are you located? Is there a surveyor involved? If not, that would be a viable option.

Ville

 

[Chan Sing]

Thanks for your response ville

I have no fort her information at this stage. I just received the extra pics of the keel and the gap between the keel and hull alarmed me.

 

[Peter Wright]

Hi Chan,

As I said above, it's hard to determine the condition of the keel to hull joint from your photos and never easy when the jointis n a recess as with the M419. As Ville says, there looks to be some mastic missing to fair the keel into the hull and it appears (but not easy to judge from the photos) that the keel is not as far into the recess as it should be. If you inspect internally, as Ville recommends, you should be looking for any evidence of cracking of the grp around the keel studs - it would take quite a pounding to actually cause that, so hopefully you won't find any. Obviously, you should ask the vendor to explain any work he has had done on the keel and ask the surveyor to look closely at it.

Whatever, nothing about a hull keel joint is not fixable. The worst problem is cracking of the grp keel stub to which the keel is bolted and thiswould take a serious grounding accident so is unlikely to have occurred without the owner noticing. Anything else can be cured by dropping the keel and remaking the joint, in which case it's worth replacing the studs, nuts and backing plates while the keel is off. Any competent yard would give you a price for this work, then you could ask the vendor either to get it done before sale or reduce his price so you can pay for it.

First step is a survey and consider the report carefully.

Peter

Peter

 

[Chan Sing]

Thanks for your help peter

you’ve been a great help!!

 

[Micky Barnes]

Chan, You will see that I have a M41 which is identical to the later M419 apart from the stern and aft cabin arrangement. As Peter has said, the keel fits into a recess in the hull but it does appear that mastic is missing between the keel and the slight gap round the recess area. Normally when hauling out I would look at this area in case any water is squeezed out but you do not have this option without re-launching. An alternative might be lift the boat in slings to check for any movement. If there is any at all then I would plan on dropping the keel, refurbish it as already suggested and refit.

If there is no movement and there is no sign of trouble internally, as already suggested, then you will see by doing a search that when keel bolts (studs) on Moodys have been pulled they are almost invariably in perfect condition. So I would repair in situ - sand blast, epoxy, mastic round the joint, etc. When looking at the studs internally be aware that the nuts and square washers/plates often look bad but if you chip and wire brush them back to bare metal they are often in good condition. I treated mine with 3 coats of Hammerite alternating white/black/white so that I could see they were properly covered. Last year I put another coat of black on just to be sure. While you are about it do the same to the bottom of the compression post.

The flange on these keels are good and wide with well laterally spaced keel bolts; this makes it very strong against side forces. I have had my M41 for 19 years with just one previous owner.
Best of luck, Micky