Moody 38 (90s) Good deal or not good deal?

[Damir Djuric]

Dear Moody experts,

I'm convinced about the Moody 38CC and found one which I visited yesterday. I wonder if that is a good offer because the, from the seller proposes approach regarding the purchasing process, is a unusual to me.

It's about this boar: https://www.yachthandel24.de/detail.php?id=361836

The selling process would be like this:

• Visit took 2 hours (only the seller and myself attended). The owner not. The seller is a small shipyard and seem to have a good technical knowledge in terms of sailing boats.
• The purchasing process would be like this: I have time until tomorrow to decide whether I want to buy the boat.
  • I would pay the money to the seller and he will ensure, that all the stuff which is in the add, is available and working.
• A boat appraisal would not be possible before the purchase (his reason: it's not really worth as he will ensure all the items in the add will work at the handover of the boat).
• The seller told me he is honest with me and is telling me everything that is not ok.
  • keel bolts would have to be replaced (by me, cost approx. 5k €)
  • standing rig is currently ok, but in mid term it has to be replaced as it is old (cost approx. 4k €)
  • How healthy the engine with 3700hrs is, is unknown.

I made several photos of the boat just to show others and hope for better understanding of the condition of the boat.

To get a better understanding of this offer I wanted to ask for your feedback.
Is this purchase process common, to first pay and than hope the stuff which is in the add is working correctly?
What is your opinion about the boat conditions, considering the pictures attached, in comparison with the price?

Each comment would help me a lot.

Cheers,
Damir

 

[Jeff Williams]

Hi Damir,
Welcome the MOA.
The normal practice in the UK is to initially agree a purchase price and then place a deposit (about 10% of the purchase price) with the agent/broker selling the boat and contracts written and agreed. This deposit secures the boat and is subject to survey. An independant professional marine surveyor is then contracted by and paid for by the buyer to determine the true condition of the boat.
If the survey is satisfactory (no faults or only minor faults) then the balance of the purchase price is paid and contracts signed and Bill of Sale issued.
If the survey identifies major faults then this can result in either an adjustment of the purchase price or the faults are corrected at the owner's cost or the buyer can walk away and take his depost with him.
If the seller/owner is eager to sell quickly and is not allowing a survey this may cause concern.
I hope this helps.

 

[Dick Holness]

Damir, Jeff has described how boats are bought and sold in UK. Here if we follow that system, the buyer is protected.
Unless you are extremely knowledgeable and experienced with boat structures and systems, I would urge you to get an independent surveyor to look over the boat for you. I would not trust the seller or the boatyard without that independent opinion.

 

[Damir Djuric]

Hi Damir,
Welcome the MOA.
The normal practice in the UK is to initially agree a purchase price and then place a deposit (about 10% of the purchase price) with the agent/broker selling the boat. This deposit secures the boat and is subject to survey. An independant professional marine surveyor is then contracted by and paid for by the buyer to determine the true condition of the boat.
If the survey is satisfactory (no faults or only minor faults) then the balance of the purchase price is paid and contracts signed and Bill of Sale issued.
If the survey identifies major faults then this can result in either an adjustment of the purchase price or the faults are corrected at the owner's cost or the buyer can walk away and take his depost with him.
If the seller/owner is eager to sell quickly and is not allowing a survey this may cause concern.
I hope this helps.

Hi Jeff and thanks a lot for your reply. The (normal) purchasing approach you explained is what I also heard from others.
hmmm... might be fishy this deal...

Would you have also a feedback to the condition of the boat in relation to the price?

 

[Damir Djuric]

Damir, Jeff has described how boats are bought and sold in UK. Here if we follow that system, the buyer is protected.
Unless you are extremely knowledgeable and experienced with boat structures and systems, I would urge you to get an independent surveyor to look over the boat for you. I would not trust the seller or the boatyard without that independent opinion.

Thanks Dick, your suggestion is much appreciated.
Regarding the boat details I have shared, may I ask you for your feeling about the boat condition and if the price for it could make sense?

 

[Jeff Williams]

Damir,
I should add that some buyers request that proof of ownership is provided by the seller.

 

[Jeff Williams]

Hi Damir,
In my experience boats always seem to look better in photos than real life and the photos can sometimes be many years old.
However if the photos reflect it's true appearance it looks in average condition but may have been cleaned up (and anti-fouled) just for the sale having previously been neglected.
It might be just me but a clean cooker/galley, clean engine/engine room and clean bilge indicates that the owner cares for the boat.
I am not familiar with the current prices of the M38. Perhaps look at on line brokers for the same model and note the prices.
Some surveyors also give an estimated value with the survey.

 

[Dick Holness]

Damir, sorry but I really can’t tell from the photos what the overall condition of the boat might be. But I have certainly seen worse.
A good selling point is the sprayhood, Bimini and Raymarine instruments are apparently only 5 years old.
Regarding the price, I’m not familiar with the price of these boats here in UK, and of course the prices might be different in Germany. But my first thought was that the price does not seem to be particularly low.
Really in your position I would not buy this or indeed any boat where a lot of money is involved, without paying a surveyor to examine it.

 

[Adam Garbo]

Hi Damir,

I wanted to comment that I'm currently going through the same process of looking at sailboats in Europe and am also considering Moodys.

In my opinion, if a broker/owner displayed the behaviour you described (e.g., placing time constraints on you, refusing a survey, etc.), I would consider it a red flag and likely walk away from the boat.

An instance where a survey wouldn't be required is if you're purchasing the sailboat "AS IS", meaning you assume all risk in making the purchase and have the knowledge and experience to make such a decision on your own.

I would also strongly recommend a survey for any vessel you hope to purchase.

Good luck!

 

[Damir Djuric]

thanks a lot for your feedback and suggestions. It helps a lot